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Post by dbaker on Nov 4, 2008 14:02:48 GMT -5
Now there are 2 Thief:Events to chose from. 1 that dose no damage to you when you use it and 1 that dose damage to you when you use it.
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hayus
Elder Immortal
Posts: 299
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Post by hayus on Nov 4, 2008 14:38:13 GMT -5
Xavier's Hook... Wow, so it's kind of a Master Swordsman now, rather than an enhanced extra shot. I love it personally, why the change?
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Post by prowler7 on Nov 4, 2008 16:40:27 GMT -5
Xavier's Hook... Wow, so it's kind of a Master Swordsman now, rather than an enhanced extra shot. I love it personally, why the change? I'll take this one cause it was my idea. I thought about the idea of Xaviers Hook and the direction the company has tried to take him in and the cards he already had. It seemed to me that he needed a good attack card, and since Hook as printed is unusable, I thought this was a nice addition to his character.
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Post by headswillroll on Nov 5, 2008 4:36:12 GMT -5
Now there are 2 Thief:Events to chose from. 1 that dose no damage to you when you use it and 1 that dose damage to you when you use it. Yes, you are correct, there are two different Thief:Events. Although the one is ability loss, not damage. There are many cards now that share the same title but have different effects, so choose wisely. Personally I cannot wait until the inception period is over. Solid rules and a new set equals fun for everyone.
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Post by zogfhyr on Nov 5, 2008 22:31:26 GMT -5
Sorry, but back to Desert for a moment. Is the card creating an effect on my opponent's turn that becomes pending until my turn - ie I am required to discard two cards from the top of my deck at the begining of my opponent's turn, but I wait until my turn to discard them along with the two cards that Desert then requires me to discard on my turn as well?
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Post by zogfhyr on Nov 5, 2008 22:44:53 GMT -5
Exertions - The new rule book states that "xerting for a card effect" is now a Standard exertion. Doesn't General Katana's Nemisis card state that he must make a Standard Exertion each turn? Wouldn't this change to the rules render that purpose of that card ineffective as it was designed to force General Katana to make an exertion each turn without being able to use it for his Persona Power?
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Post by headswillroll on Nov 6, 2008 4:41:10 GMT -5
Sorry, but back to Desert for a moment. Is the card creating an effect on my opponent's turn that becomes pending until my turn - ie I am required to discard two cards from the top of my deck at the begining of my opponent's turn, but I wait until my turn to discard them along with the two cards that Desert then requires me to discard on my turn as well? You have it correct. The text on the card does create a must do effect on each player's turn for each player. However, as with any must do effects that affect you and take place during your opponent's turn, they are resolved during your MD/MD phase. The discarding for Desert happens at the beginning of your turn, which is the MD/MD phase. That is why we put the example in there to clarify what is happening.
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Post by headswillroll on Nov 6, 2008 4:55:33 GMT -5
Exertions - The new rule book states that "xerting for a card effect" is now a Standard exertion. Doesn't General Katana's Nemisis card state that he must make a Standard Exertion each turn? Wouldn't this change to the rules render that purpose of that card ineffective as it was designed to force General Katana to make an exertion each turn without being able to use it for his Persona Power? The text of the card is: Nemesis Situation Psychosis: You may play this card if your opponent is Katana. While this card is in play, Katana must make an exertion each turn to remove Situations from play. Katana cannot remove this card with an exertion. You may only have one nemesis in play. Katana must make an exertion during his MD/MD phase to remove any situations in play regardless of the owner. When there are none left other than the nemesis, he must still make an exertion for this effect during his MD/MD phase, and he cannot remove the nemesis with an exertion used for this effect.
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Post by zogfhyr on Nov 6, 2008 23:30:24 GMT -5
I'm holding in my hand a Nemisis card with the following text:
Psychosis: You may play this card if your opponent is General Katana. While this card is in play, General Katana must make Standard Exertions during his turn.
My question about exertions refers to this card, not the other printing of it. If your rules are making every exertion (the normal 5 and any from a card effect) a Standard Exertion then why have a term for it? Wouldn't it make more sense to have the Standard 5 and then anyothers would be non-standard (ie those from card effects)?
And with Desert, why don't I discard cards from my deck during my opponent's turn? Other effects take place during my opponent's turn - for example Dirty Trick: Headbutt.
More thoughts -
The rules doc does not mention that if you are able to attack to areas you just blocked, you can drop a guard you blocked with that turn and attack as normal - does this no longer apply in first edition?
In the Standard Constructed section you mention several cards that are not playable but do not mention Master's Prize or the other errored premiums from The Gathering (1ed) (Corda and Reno, Fasil, Kane). Are those cards now legal to play?
HtG #187 - The Prize (titled Arms and Tactics) has received quite a bit of errata. When being used in 1ed do we use the wording on the card or the updated text (its not listed in the doc). Also HtG #197 - Arms and Tactics had the "if you don't play a special card" removed with errata. Does this carry over to 1ed?
Also, what is the reasoning for neutering Kane? Your errata implies that he can no longer play reserved cards from the top of his opponent's deck. Also, you may want to clean up the wording on his entry and his Quickening since they almost make him sound like he makes the card he plays off the top of his opponent's deck no longer reserved. It would probably make more sense to have it say: "At the beginning of your turn, you may look at the top card of your opponent's endurance. You may use that card this turn if you discard the top card of your endurance. You may not play Reserved or Signature cards in the manner"
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zarth2k
Elder Immortal
"So lure him outside and take his head. Problem solved."
Posts: 265
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Post by zarth2k on Nov 7, 2008 4:52:52 GMT -5
And with Desert, why don't I discard cards from my deck during my opponent's turn? Other effects take place during my opponent's turn - for example Dirty Trick: Headbutt. Personally I have always thought that discarding should always be done as an immediate action, and not wait for the next MD/MD. Having people hold every action until the beginning of their next turn makes the game much less intuitive. Also, what is the reasoning for neutering Kane? Your errata implies that he can no longer play reserved cards from the top of his opponent's deck. Also, you may want to clean up the wording on his entry and his Quickening since they almost make him sound like he makes the card he plays off the top of his opponent's deck no longer reserved. It would probably make more sense to have it say: "At the beginning of your turn, you may look at the top card of your opponent's endurance. You may use that card this turn if you discard the top card of your endurance. You may not play Reserved or Signature cards in the manner" Making Kane unable to play reserved cards is just silly. It's not like he's ever been one of the top 5 powerhouses in the game. I would really like to know the thinking behind this my self.
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Post by headswillroll on Nov 7, 2008 16:40:21 GMT -5
First of all let me say that this is exactly what we were hoping for, the interaction of the players to help us with the ultimate rule when we are making these rule books. Which we call "the betterment of the game as a whole". One thing to keep in mind is that we specifically asked everyone to read the entire document. The main reason is that even though everyone was used to seeing certain rules posted in every section which touched on a specific subject with the previous documents, this is not so in the Type One rulebook. Pertinent information is given in the sections where they should be addressed, this cut the original documents by a lot of frivolous pages. The end result was combined documents that equaled in the neighborhood of 48 pages to 14 pages (HTML) and 20 pages (PDF). Now, after researching your questions and conferring with Prowler over these issues, I am first going to answer the questions that are answered in the rulebook.
#1- I have found both versions of the Nemesis:Psychosis and each one reads as is written. The Psychosis you are referring to is a little weaker but it does have options. Ultimately it will be your choice which to play. We are keeping the Exertion rule the way it is because it is designed for the game now and in the future.
#2- The reasoning behind Desert not being an "immediate effect" is so that its effect can be countered. If you did this on your opponent's turn, you would have no way of countering it, which isn't fair to either player and makes the card very confusing. So, Desert is not an "immediate effect". Dirty Trick: Headbutt will stay the way it is because it has the ability to be countered whether by a successful defense or a card.
#3- First thing to state, this document is for Type One format. If 1ed Only players wish to use it they may, but they will have to bridge any gaps between the documents for their respective groups. In Type One, you may not attack through a guard or drop a guard used this turn and attack to those areas covered by the guard, unless you have an ability or card effect that allows you to do so. This information is found under the Guards section.
Now to some changes that will be in force as of 11-23-08. We will add this information into the documents asap.
Misprints- These are cards that were misprinted due to a number of reasons in the past that have not already been addressed.
Illegal cards Iman +1 front/ Highlander back Any home brewed cards (example= Generic Attitude is Everything/ Disgruntled Employee/both versions of Donna Lettow)
Legal combining cards You may use the following combination of cards with clear sleeves and placed back to front or vice versa in order to allow the card to be what was meant to exist.
Kane Persona front/Yung Dol Kim persona back = Kane persona Yung Dol Kim persona front/ Kane persona back = YDK persona Kane +1 front/ Kane +1 back = Kane +1 Corda and Reno +1 front/ Corda and Reno +1 back = C&R +1 Iman MCBC front/ Iman MCBC back = Iman MCBC Master's Prize front/ Master's Prize back = Master's Prize Methos Inner Strength front/ Opaque sleeve = Methos I.S.
We are aware of the misprinted basic attacks/blocks in 2ed and will address these as well as any other misprinted cards that have not already been covered as we find each individual one while making the Type Two Rulebook. If there are any other misprints that we have overlooked, then please send them to either Prowler or myself via PM with your results so that we can address them.
Card Errata
HtG #187- Arms and Tactics - You may remove this card from the game to shuffle your discard pile into your endurance.
HtG #197- Arms and Tactics - You may remove this card from the game to play defenses against multiple attacks, even if there are cards preventing you from doing so.
HtG #252- General Katana - Extended Blade- S2- Object- You may only include this card in your deck if you are using the Two Handed Weapon of Choice. You may play non-special attacks after playing a Back Away.
HS1 #042- Guillotine- Object- Discard this card from play to search your discard for one card titled Head Shot, and put it into your hand.
HS1 #112- Single Handed Broadsword- Weapon Lock- Edge- R4- Play in conjunction with a block. Retrieve up to three basic attacks from your discard and put them into your hand. You may not play any attacks this turn.
Arms and Tactics (1ed version) Remove 5- You may remove 5 cards from your hand/endurance/discard and place them under this card. If you do, remove this card from the game. The cards under this card stay under this card, and are not considered removed from the game.
Kane- Persona- At the beginning of your turn you may look at the top card of your opponent's endurance. You may use this card if you discard the top card of your endurance. You may not play signature cards in this manner. You may have up to 5 Master cards.
Quickening [Kane] - At the beginning of your turn you may look at the top card of your opponent's endurance. You may use this card if you discard the top card of your endurance. You may not play reserved or signature cards in this manner.
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Post by headswillroll on Nov 7, 2008 17:17:01 GMT -5
And with Desert, why don't I discard cards from my deck during my opponent's turn? Other effects take place during my opponent's turn - for example Dirty Trick: Headbutt. Personally I have always thought that discarding should always be done as an immediate action, and not wait for the next MD/MD. Having people hold every action until the beginning of their next turn makes the game much less intuitive. Also, what is the reasoning for neutering Kane? Your errata implies that he can no longer play reserved cards from the top of his opponent's deck. Also, you may want to clean up the wording on his entry and his Quickening since they almost make him sound like he makes the card he plays off the top of his opponent's deck no longer reserved. It would probably make more sense to have it say: "At the beginning of your turn, you may look at the top card of your opponent's endurance. You may use that card this turn if you discard the top card of your endurance. You may not play Reserved or Signature cards in the manner" Making Kane unable to play reserved cards is just silly. It's not like he's ever been one of the top 5 powerhouses in the game. I would really like to know the thinking behind this my self. #1- You are definitely entitled to your opinion, and it has been noted. However, game mechanics and timing as well as allowing the possibility of countering the effects of Desert are the reasons behind our decision. #2- We appreciate the wording from Zogphyr and the opinions you both expressed. The problem wasn't with the persona, but instead with the Quickening. After careful consideration, we have corrected the situation.
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zarth2k
Elder Immortal
"So lure him outside and take his head. Problem solved."
Posts: 265
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Post by zarth2k on Nov 8, 2008 17:43:47 GMT -5
Opinions will always vary from player to player, and has a lot to do with your not only how you play the game, but how those around you choose to play. I’m sure every one appreciates you guys taking on the Type One Rules challenge. I know I’ll be glad when the kinks are all worked out and we can just point to a finished document during play rather than arguing the rules. So, don’t take any of our comments as being personal or derogatory. Some times on line I tend to make my answerers kind of clipped mostly because I’m trying to finish the thought before I run of to do something else. But, I never intend for them to be anything but friendly. Hey, Were all just trying to enjoy our favorite TCG right? =)
I can see what your saying about Desert. It still feels wanky to me. So, my opponent plays Desert as his special on his turn. At the beginning of my MD/MD I play Recon. Recon lets me ignore the Desert location for my turn. Cool. It still seems like I should still have to discard the 2 cards I racked up from my opponents turn. I DO realize that this is the 1st chance I have had to respond to the Desert, and it would seem a little unfair to have to discard 2 cards with out recourse, but then my opponent is getting hit with that same problem next turn too. It just seems well…wanky. *L* I’m not saying your wrong obviously. I’m just saying it feels weird.
As for Kane and his Quickening, I hate Quickenings! *L* I think they are an abomination to the game. Our local group has even gone as far as banning them. So, I wasn’t worried about that. On the other hand, I love the Persona. It’s a fun loose persona that gives you a lot of options, and can occasionally be built very nasty with out being over powered. I just didn’t want to see him unnecessarily nerfed.
One more question I did have on the new rules, did you mean to pull all of the cads off the Errata list that were added due to being Signitured? Because, I am not looking forward to the return of Ritchie and his Flying Hog of death. I’ll tell ya that for nothing.
Z2K
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Post by zogfhyr on Nov 8, 2008 19:41:37 GMT -5
One more question I did have on the new rules, did you mean to pull all of the cads off the Errata list that were added due to being Signitured? Because, I am not looking forward to the return of Ritchie and his Flying Hog of death. I’ll tell ya that for nothing. Z2K I agree with this one (just hadn't gotten around to complaining about it yet). Kern: Hogg, Corda and Reno: Flying Machine (Wings) and Xavier: Hidden Explosives all got errata (signatured) in the olden days to avoid abuse along with Ramirez Master's Advantage which remains signatured (thank you!). I'm not too concerned about Hidden Explosives losing its signature status or its other errata but Hogg and Wings were problematic and resignaturing them might be a good idea again. May question on Guards came up due to the fact that in the old 1ed rules you were able to drop a guard if you could attack through blocks to attack normaly - personaly I am glad that you've decided to take that ruling back out. I was never a fan of it and felt it didn't make much sense. I know I didn't say it before, but I'm very happy with the fact that 1st edition got a good work over. Thank you guys, you've done a great job.
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Post by prowler7 on Nov 9, 2008 1:24:12 GMT -5
One more question I did have on the new rules, did you mean to pull all of the cads off the Errata list that were added due to being Signitured? Because, I am not looking forward to the return of Ritchie and his Flying Hog of death. I’ll tell ya that for nothing. In the old days, there were few ways of getting rid of Hogg, Wings, etc etc, especially after they made Thief cost 1 ability per item removed. Now there are several ways of getting around these cards (and Thief is free now if you play the right version), PLUS you cant have Hogg AND Wings out at the same time (see the section on Groups and Vehicles). So YES, we DID mean to unsignature those cards, along with removing the errata on a host of other cards that BEFORE were quite lethal but now are much more managable in thier original form.
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