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Post by headswillroll on Mar 23, 2014 8:06:26 GMT -5
My question is can we mix type one and type two Ephemeral Wound for Kane since type one is an event and type two is an illusion? You cannot mix them, other than the card type, they are the same card. Good question, though. That will be an example in the rulebook Ok, Prowler and I discussed this at length, and checked all the resources for exact text. This question was not asked correctly from the beginning which put Prowler in a bad spot. We would like to at this time ask that anyone with a card question (especially when it pertains to the Version Rule) to please, type the card's text in with the question, 9 0ut of 10 you are looking at the card, and it will quicken the response time and keep us with the ability to give a fair, balanced answer. So, taking this and the Version Rule from the Type One Rule Book: Version RuleMixing the cards from different Editions: When a card (Pre-game or In-game) shares the same title, grid, and text as a card from another edition of the game, you must choose which version you wish to include in your deck. You may not mix versions of the card chosen when constructing your deck. To ensure you are not accidentally mixing versions, confirm the errata section concerning the cards you have chosen, or confirm with your tournament director. Ephemeral Wound (1st Ed)- Kane - R2 EVENT Play this card in your Defense Phase to avoid all damage from an attack. Your next attack this turn may be hidden. Ephemeral Wound (2nd Ed) - Kane - R4 ILLUSION Prevent one damage or point of Ability loss. You may play multiple Ephemeral Wounds found in a Hard Exertion. ----------------------------------------------------- Now in this case, the question was not accurate, since as we can see the cards are different in text in a major way, so both may be used. Also, as the rule reads, card type is not an indicator to be factored in. The Version rule deals with title, grid and text. Also, the rule is made for using common sense, not rules lawyering, for example, say the question was about Open Mind: Open Mind (1st Ed) - Kane - R2 EVENT Your opponent must discard all Persona-specific cards from his hand. Open Mind (2nd Ed) - Kane - R2 ILLUSION Your opponent must discard all Persona Specific cards from their hand. In this case, title and text are essentially the same using common sense, so you would have to use the Version Rule and choose which version you will include in your deck. Now just to explain what we mean by rules lawyering, a rules lawyer would at this point be saying "No, they are different, because..... 1- in the 1ed card, the word "specific is not capitalized" 2- in the 1ed card there is a dash between Persona and specific 3- the 1ed card says "his" where the 2ed card says "their" 4- the 2ed card has a quote Hope this helps, Prowler and HWR |
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dcapotate
Elder Immortal
Call Me Horseman Zero
Posts: 346
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Post by dcapotate on Mar 25, 2014 20:46:35 GMT -5
Headswillroll, thank you for eventually answering my question - sort of - by saying that I seem to be a rules lawyer or I would understand this without being told. As you know I do not have a computer at home where I keep my cards so I will always be the 1 out of 10 that does not have access to my cards and a public Library computer at the same time. So no trick or trap was attempted, just an honest question. Luckily Headswillroll and I are good friends and I take no offense.
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Post by prowler7 on Mar 25, 2014 20:50:57 GMT -5
A lot of the above was directed at people asking questions in general. We get a lot of questions without card text, and it's hard to answer when we can't see the cards.
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Post by kurganfan on Mar 26, 2014 22:00:09 GMT -5
Also, as the rule reads, card type is not an indicator to be factored in.
Please clarify this for me, and sorry for my noobness. Isn't card type and grid assignment sort of the same? Grid assignment I'd guess refers primarily to attack and defense as those use grids, but it's also the space for the card type icon. Is grid assignment ONLY pertaining to attack and defense and type referring to simply different card types?
Sorry but I get a little loopy at times due to medication. I get the differences in the example using Open Mind, they are by text the same, but if title, grid and text apply and not type, why couldn't both be used? They are clearly different types and would not share a grid assignment. No I'm not supporting a Kane deck with 4 Open Mind.
In this case, title and text are essentially the same using common sense, so you would have to use the Version Rule and choose which version you will include in your deck. Now just to explain what we mean by rules lawyering, a rules lawyer would at this point be saying "No, they are different, because.....
1- in the 1ed card, the word "specific is not capitalized"
2- in the 1ed card there is a dash between Persona and specific
3- the 1ed card says "his" where the 2ed card says "their"
4- the 2ed card has a quote
I agree these examples would be nonsense and time wasting, I would almost DQ someone for the above, but how would grid assignment differentiate the 2?
Sorry for the oddballness of my questions, I just don't want to sound like a rules lawyer or a noob when I try to interpret the rules.
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Post by headswillroll on Mar 27, 2014 6:40:26 GMT -5
Headswillroll, thank you for eventually answering my question - sort of - by saying that I seem to be a rules lawyer or I would understand this without being told. As you know I do not have a computer at home where I keep my cards so I will always be the 1 out of 10 that does not have access to my cards and a public Library computer at the same time. So no trick or trap was attempted, just an honest question. Luckily Headswillroll and I are good friends and I take no offense. LOL, yes that is true, Decapotate. There was no offense or malice anywhere in the conversation whatsoever. Glad we could get it answered for you. HWR |
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Post by headswillroll on Mar 27, 2014 7:07:26 GMT -5
Also, as the rule reads, card type is not an indicator to be factored in. Please clarify this for me, and sorry for my noobness. Isn't card type and grid assignment sort of the same? Grid assignment I'd guess refers primarily to attack and defense as those use grids, but it's also the space for the card type icon. Is grid assignment ONLY pertaining to attack and defense and type referring to simply different card types? Sorry but I get a little loopy at times due to medication. I get the differences in the example using Open Mind, they are by text the same, but if title, grid and text apply and not type, why couldn't both be used? They are clearly different types and would not share a grid assignment. No I'm not supporting a Kane deck with 4 Open Mind. In this case, title and text are essentially the same using common sense, so you would have to use the Version Rule and choose which version you will include in your deck. Now just to explain what we mean by rules lawyering, a rules lawyer would at this point be saying "No, they are different, because..... 1- in the 1ed card, the word "specific is not capitalized" 2- in the 1ed card there is a dash between Persona and specific 3- the 1ed card says "his" where the 2ed card says "their" 4- the 2ed card has a quote I agree these examples would be nonsense and time wasting, I would almost DQ someone for the above, but how would grid assignment differentiate the 2? Sorry for the oddballness of my questions, I just don't want to sound like a rules lawyer or a noob when I try to interpret the rules. LOL, no problem. As far as the Version Rule goes: Grid Assignment vs Card Type Icon = Even though they are located in the same area of the card, they are different, because they have different effects. Yes, Grid Assignment does apply primarily to attacks and defenses. Yes, Card Type is pretty much just that. Not following you on the question about Open Mind? The reason it falls under the Version Rule is that the text and title are the same. As you stated, there is no reason he needs 4 of them. The reason Ephemeral wound does not is because even though the title is the same, the text is very different. Decapotate was just asking if Card Type was a factor as far as the Version Rule goes. The reason Grid assignment is a factor, is because of, for example, an attack/defense has the same title and text with grid assignment A from 1ed stuff, and grid assignment B from 2ed stuff. The grid assignment is a helpful tool for deciding uniqueness on gridded cards. Hope that helps, HWR |
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Post by headswillroll on Mar 27, 2014 7:26:08 GMT -5
Have been getting other questions, so just to clarify:
The ONLY time the Version rule comes into play, is if there is a card with the same title, text and if applicable, grid assignment, but from different editions (i.e. 1ed, 2ed, 3ed). Otherwise, it does not.
Hope that helps,
HWR
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Post by kurganfan on Mar 27, 2014 14:48:26 GMT -5
I stumbled on the grid assignment as opposed to type idea. I wasn't sure if the type icon placing was also considered grid assignment, as that is the space on the card where the grid is assigned, not just the spaces on the actual grid. Did I mention I've played Magic the Gathering since '94 and that I have a 'Rules Lawyer' T shirt?  |
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Post by headswillroll on Mar 27, 2014 18:26:12 GMT -5
I stumbled on the grid assignment as opposed to type idea. I wasn't sure if the type icon placing was also considered grid assignment, as that is the space on the card where the grid is assigned, not just the spaces on the actual grid. Did I mention I've played Magic the Gathering since '94 and that I have a 'Rules Lawyer' T shirt? LMAO!!!!!!!!  Not a problem, that is why we are here. HWR |
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