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Post by prowler7 on May 10, 2008 9:55:55 GMT -5
I have a similiar thread in the general rules questions, because most of the answers given there affect both Type One AND Type Two. I put this thread here because it deals ONLY with Type One.
This is a question for the Design Team, I guess, and kind of follows into the need for that "all important card list" : Are the 1ed Watcher cards going to be renamed so that they fall into the rules for the new game mechanic?
Luckily this is a relatively simple matter, you just compile a list of all the 1ed Watcher cards and state the new name for each, along with any possible change to the card for balance purposes (Watcher Healer).
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Post by headswillroll on May 13, 2008 15:00:44 GMT -5
Also for the Design Team, there are a few links over on the Type Two discussion concerning this, but nothing has been deemed "official". In Type One, will it be a rule that even though there are now two versions of the pre game Joe Dawson and James Horton, in order to include watcher or hunter cards into your deck during construction you must have either a Joe Dawson or James Horton in your pregame? If this is so, since you also mentioned making more watcher/hunter pregame identities, would it be safe to assume that if you use Adam Pierson as a pregame that he would allow you to include watcher cards in your deck?
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Post by prowler7 on May 13, 2008 16:03:21 GMT -5
You may only play one watcher pregame card. Currently you may only include cards titled watcher in your deck if you play Joe Dawson. Currently you may only include cards titled Hunter if you play James Horton. Currently there is no way to have both watcher and hunter cards in your deck, although there will be possibilities in the future. My question is what effect this has on Type One? |
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Post by greg on May 15, 2008 4:03:16 GMT -5
The best I can say at the moment is "i will get back to you". I'm not ignoring this question, but the effects on type one are still being debated honestly. An answer will be given as soon as possible.
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Post by prowler7 on May 15, 2008 5:06:07 GMT -5
The best I can say at the moment is "i will get back to you". I'm not ignoring this question, but the effects on type one are still being debated honestly. An answer will be given as soon as possible. Cool! |
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Post by Thorr on May 15, 2008 7:40:12 GMT -5
One effect on type One that could be a serious issue is that since the new Watcher cards don't use Subtitles to identify them as such, you have to define a Watcher card just like a Master Card. (If Watcher is in the title, it's a watcher card). That would mean that all those SE and WC watcher cards would fall under that rule. How many decks would get nerfed by making Watcher: Heal into a watcher card that can only be included with a Watcher PG?
You also have the issue that there are -no- cards titled Hunter in the old TCG stuff. This means that a Hunter card would be defined strangely. You can't really say that all cards with Hunter in the title are Hunter cards since there are several that aren't (Head Hunter, Hyde: Hunter, Kalas: Hunter) The only actual Hunter cards in TCG are titled Watcher with a subtype of Hunter.
I think the only way to solve the issue is to say that older Watcher Pre-game cards gain the text "You may include Watcher/Hunter cards in your deck" accordingly. Then have that text apply to only the new Watcher/Hunter cards. (This whole thing could have been resolved by using a Watcher subtitle, but alas, this is what we need to work with.)
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Post by jamesmcmurray on May 15, 2008 13:21:13 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of watcher and hunter cards out there for T1, and no new ones will be printed that are T1 only. So a simple list of which cards count as watchers and which as hunters shouldn't be too hard to toss together.
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Post by prowler7 on May 15, 2008 15:44:42 GMT -5
There aren't a lot of watcher and hunter cards out there for T1, and no new ones will be printed that are T1 only. So a simple list of which cards count as watchers and which as hunters shouldn't be too hard to toss together. I already did and forwarded the list to the Design Team, along with proposed text changes to bring those cards in line with the NEW Watcher/Hunter cards. Changing the cards to ALL Watcher or Hunter is easy, the problem comes in game balance, which may be where the real problem is. |
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Post by Thorr on May 15, 2008 16:17:03 GMT -5
But again, you'd be messing with a core mechanic. So many decks out there use watcher cards and do not use a Watcher Pre-game.
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Post by prowler7 on May 15, 2008 16:41:59 GMT -5
But again, you'd be messing with a core mechanic. So many decks out there use watcher cards and do not use a Watcher Pre-game. Changing "Situation : Plot" and "Event : Plot" to simply "Plot" was also a change of core mechanic. How many people regularly put "Investigation" in thier deck, since a "Focus" would normally do the trick? I dont think the Design Team is afraid of changing such mechanics, and personally I think the addition of requiring a Watcher Pre-Game to put Watcher cards in your deck is a GOOD idea. |
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Post by headswillroll on May 16, 2008 7:52:53 GMT -5
I don't think it will be that much of a conversion. We all survived the plot deal as well as the rest of the upgrades to Type One. This will just be another distinguishing factor between Type One and 1ed Only players. Plus, lets face it a lot of the Type One players have played Type Two from time to time and this will help keep the confusion down with them. Which would be smart considering that the Type One players are buying new product, and all the rules they need are on this forum.
With the comment that was made by the design team about in the future having pregame allies that allow you both Watcher and Hunter cards, I would say that Adam Pierson would be a great start since he showed time and time again that he uses the watcher chronicles for his benefit regardless, and shows no affiliation when it comes to his head. Another good one would be that gal that coached the young immortal that took May Ling's head. Just a thought.
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Post by greg on May 20, 2008 5:19:49 GMT -5
Adam Pierson never really used the hunters. He used the watchers to get things he wanted, he never used them to attack his enemies. Only to hide from his enemies. Hunters are more for those that directly attacked immortals. The woman who helped the young immortal take May Ling's head, or the cop who was after Carl Robinson, or the guy from Darkness who kidnapped Tess, etc.
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Post by headswillroll on May 22, 2008 9:10:24 GMT -5
Uh Oh, random thought!!
Why not do one of two things with the 1ed Watcher cards.
#1= Ban them from tournament play. Then you don't have to deal with figuring out what is a Hunter or what is a Watcher. This idea came to me due to the fact that all of the 1ed Watchers have been remade/copied in the 2ed, and since they are basically the same and already sorted into the two catagories, a muted point.
#2= Apply the same rule that you applied to Connor's Master Block, Kirk Matunas, and Boom Boom in the Mid West Championships. Basically, you may use the 1ed version or the 2ed version, but not both.
#3= Leave the 1ed Watcher cards as Watchers. If you look at it they could be considered in the reflection of Joe Dawson shooting immortals with his revolver, or Watcher snipers shooting at immortals, whether that is on the rooftop of their headquarters, or when they kept trying to abduct Duncan to put him in the cryogenic freeze.
Just some ideas.
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Post by greg on May 22, 2008 15:51:28 GMT -5
It will most likely be the the banned from tournament play route to be honest. But we will see. We have not made a decision on this yet. Hopefully this weekend I can give you a definitive answer.
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Post by prowler7 on May 22, 2008 16:49:44 GMT -5
It will most likely be the the banned from tournament play route to be honest. But we will see. We have not made a decision on this yet. Hopefully this weekend I can give you a definitive answer. You know what, for the growth of the game (ie. selling cards) and for the sake of keeping things sane, I think banning 1ed Watcher cards is THE BEST idea. There arent that many Watcher cards in 1ed, and the good ones have all been reprinted in 2ed. |
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