Some 1e unofficial errata

[erikmodi]

Some changes my little Highlander group made to some cards to make them less. . . annoying.

Nemesis: A Thousand Regrets
Situation
You may only play this card if your opponent is Methos. While this card is in play, Methos must remove all Master Cards from play (not overwriting any “Master Cards cannot be countered or removed from play” effect.) Methos may not play Master cards, and must discard any Master cards in his hand now and whenever he draws them. You may have only one Nemesis in play.

My Amanda deck has had problems with certain Objects, namely Corda and Reno's Flying Machine: Wings, and Kurgan's Skull Helmet, as well as my friends excessively annoying Iman Fasil uber-hidden-attack deck. So, she's noted for using a Watcher's Chronicle with Nemesis: Self-Betrayal (for use against Fasil or other lotsa-hidden-attack decks) and Nemesis: Grounded! (for use against annoying object decks. I also included Nemesis: A Thousand Regrets as part of a cunning ploy. . . put out A Thousand Regrets, and when it finally goes away, they'll be SO HAPPY, or they'll be so happy to see that I pulled out ANYTHING BUT A Thousand Regrets, they'll leave whatever other Nemesis I bring out alone. Also, as way to end a game that's just gone on long enough. Anyway, my friends were annoyed by the cheapness of A Thousand Regrets, and even I didn't like brining it out. So, we came up with this more fair errata.

Lunge
Edge
Play in conjunction with a Basic attack. Your opponent may not play a dodge against this attack unless that dodge comes from an extertion. This attack may not be hidden.

The lunge is an integral part of Fasil making hidden attacks as annoying as humanly possible. I remember many times when barrages of Lunged Hidden Power Blows/Head Shots would just make you want to cry.

Nemesis: Brash Youth
Situation
You may only play this card if your opponent is Richie Ryan. While this card is in play, Richie may not play reserved or signature Immortal Specific cards. You may have only one nemesis card in play.

Kinda the opposite of A Thousand Regrets, none of us ever played Richie's Nemesis, but we also thought it needed some kind of beefing up.

Watcher’s Chronicle
Object
Instead of playing a Special card, you may search through your draw deck, find any one nemesis card, and put it into play regardless of who your opponent is (shuffle your deck.) If Watcher’s Chronicle is removed from play, discard any nemesis card brought into play by Watcher’s Chronicle.

To alleviate some of the potential cheese of Watcher's Chronicle, we decided it just made sense this way.

[Thorr]

note - there is no reason for this:

Richie may not play reserved or signature Immortal Specific cards.

Richie cannot play signature cards anyway.

The other problem I have with it is that the wording means that he can;t even play his -own- cards.

[headswillroll]

All, I can say is between your group and the Winnipeg group I am definately glad that I play Type One format. Where are you all located at? Have you considered Type One format? If not you might consider reading the Type One Forum for some insights on how the company has been trying to fix certain problems we all faced in the past. Do you include any of the new 2ed cards or are you strictly 1ed only?

[erikmodi]

thorr said:

note - there is no reason for this:

Richie may not play reserved or signature Immortal Specific cards.

Richie cannot play signature cards anyway.

The other problem I have with it is that the wording means that he can;t even play his -own- cards.

That's sort of the point. Most Nemesis cards not only nullify an Immortal's persona power, but provide an additional drawback.

headswillroll: We're in the Twin Cities, Minnesota. We haven't experimented with 2e at all yet, since I only recently found out it exists, and am currently unemployed to can't buy it, and FLGS apparently hasn't started to carry it yet. I'm cautiously excited for experimenting with 2e, though, and perhaps Type One format, as well.

[prowler7]

erikmodi said:

Some changes my little Highlander group made to some cards to make them less. . . annoying.

Seriously, had you guys never thought of just playing smaller, faster decks? Wings, Skull Helmet, Hogg and any other object is easily removed with Misfortune. Lunge isnt so bad when you have Bait & Switch. As JamesMcMurray pointed out in another thread, toolbox cards are vital in this game, and having a small deck where you can get those cards is the way to win, even against 200 card decks.

[erikmodi]

And yet, our decks are so big BECAUSE we have to include certain amounts of Police, Misfortune, etc., and can't keep adding cards to counter every new strategy. There's just no more room to include Bait and Switch in any of my decks. Not without building a deck that just counters those two decks my opponent's play. Besides, the errata we adopted wasn't just because we didn't want to have to use certain cards to survive (Bait and Switch would still be ideal against an Iman Fasil deck) but because we honestly felt that, in certain instances, these cards were broken and needed reworking.

Perhaps part of our "large deck problem" comes from us almost exclusively playing the old Multiplayer rules. When three people want to play Highlander, it's really the only thing we can do.

[Thorr]

The solution to countering problems with certain play environments isn't to -add- cards, it's to -change- cards. The thing about small decks is that you have let go of the "I don;t ever want to take damage" notion. Sure it would be nice to always have your defenses perfect, but it's just not realistic. If you can take a hit to dish out a bigger one, then you've got something.

Another thing to consider - Don't use Nemesis cards. They waste space in your deck unless you already know your opponent's persona. My playgroup has a courtesy rule that no nemesis cards are played unless it's a tournament.

I really feel that you are all just trying to do too many things and trying to defend against all of them. i recommend that you look at some good tight deck listings, pick one, build it, then wipe the floor with your enemies. A Lean and Mean Duncan Machine Gun deck will make short work of your buddies (unless they play Kronos...)

[erikmodi]

The nemesis cards I use are used in conjunction with things like Watcher's Chronicle, or sometimes Watcher Database, so I can get them out against a variety of personas, and deal with the most irksome cheese out there. And I have recently trimmed them from my decks in any event, though it'll be interesting to see if the new lean style will work.

But I can't help but feel we're talking at cross purposes. I understand that our large decks are a problem (and have a similar thread about that already.) These were changes we made because that, large decks or not, these cards seem cheap in some manner. You can't deny that A Thousand Regrets is a gamestopping card, especially in conjunction with things like Watcher's Chronicle and Watcher Database.

[prowler7]

erikmodi said:

You can't deny that A Thousand Regrets is a gamestopping card, especially in conjunction with things like Watcher's Chronicle and Watcher Database.

Any 1ed Nemesis card is easily taken care of with FOCUS. And given that Methos can use REGULAR Focus along with A MASTERS FOCUS, I dont really feel that his nemesis is a gamestopper. Now, if you are running a 200 card deck and will only get a Focus every 34 cards or so, that is a different story. Yet another reason for Methos to play a much smaller deck.

[erikmodi]

But, you take a Watcher's Chronicle, use it to put A Thousand Regrets into play regardless of who your opponent is, and they are stuck with being unable to draw unless they have a Master card to discard every turn. Against standard Immortals, who are only allows five Master cards, even in a small deck this can be problematic. Against a Generic Immortal, you've effectively stopped them cold, unless they have a Police or (with our Watcher's Chronicle chance) a Misfortune in hand.

It's not that it's not broken against Methos. It's that it's broken against anyone else, and even some Methos decks.

[prowler7]

erikmodi said:

But, you take a Watcher's Chronicle, use it to put A Thousand Regrets into play regardless of who your opponent is, and they are stuck with being unable to draw unless they have a Master card to discard every turn.

You DO understand that the nemesis will ONLY work on Methos? Watcher's Chronicle only allows you to put that card into play, the nemesis cards say they only affect that immortal. Watchers Database will allow that card to ALSO affect that immortals Quickening, but that is the only exception.

[prowler7]

erikmodi said:

But, you take a Watcher's Chronicle, use it to put A Thousand Regrets into play regardless of who your opponent is, and they are stuck with being unable to draw unless they have a Master card to discard every turn.

Do you guys know about the Players Handbook? Since you are playing 1ed for the time being, you may find this very helpfull. It has errata for 1ed cards and rules. Thorr I know has a link for it, could you post it?

[erikmodi]

prowler7 said:

erikmodi said:

But, you take a Watcher's Chronicle, use it to put A Thousand Regrets into play regardless of who your opponent is, and they are stuck with being unable to draw unless they have a Master card to discard every turn.

You DO understand that the nemesis will ONLY work on Methos? Watcher's Chronicle only allows you to put that card into play, the nemesis cards say they only affect that immortal. Watchers Database will allow that card to ALSO affect that immortals Quickening, but that is the only exception.

So, what, exactly, does Watcher's Chronicle do, then? Nothing at all?

Even so, my group and I believe that completely preventing someone from drawing cards unless they have a Master card in their hand to discard is too much. Unless they happen to have Focus or Police in their hand, they are dead. And even if they have a Focus, or two, or three, those will only last for so long. One, or two, or three chances to draw another Master card (when you may, in fact, have already played them all) or a Police is one heck of a crap shoot, even for a small deck. Perhaps especially for a small deck, as you may be able to play it after they've played/used all their Master cards, then they are unable to draw while you steadily wear them down/exhaust them by forcing them to Exert for defenses, because sooner or later they'll be out of blocks in hand, and unable to draw more.

[prowler7]

erikmodi said:

So, what, exactly, does Watcher's Chronicle do, then? Nothing at all?

It allows you to get that one Nemesis card into play so it isnt clogging up your deck. This is one of the reasons nobody ever played Nemesis cards, unless you are SURE of facing that particular immortal, they are rarely worth the space in your deck.

[Thorr]

erikmodi said:

You can't deny that A Thousand Regrets is a gamestopping card, especially in conjunction with things like Watcher's Chronicle and Watcher Database.

A Game-stopper against Methos is a GOOD thing. Methos decks NEVER take damage and constantly dish out the same combos repeatedly. If you want to watch an exercise in futility, watch 2 Methos decks up against each other.

But having said that, the only time I would ever put the card in my deck is if I was going into a tourney and I knew the habits of the other players.