Duende Stopper?

[headswillroll]

Here is a question of timing. Duende says that any successful attack does zero damage. Well, it has already been ruled in the past that Kurgan's ability does apply to zero damage but not "no damage". So does the ability take effect before duende reduces damage or after? It might need an "official" ruling, but who am I kidding, we already know that Tim and crew won't be responding anytime soon.



Headswillroll

[Thorr]

I think you will find that there is a ruling in the handbook handbook addendum on 0 damage.

Damage - reducing to zero - When damage is "reduced to zero", this occurs after all additions to damage, as long as the effect that is reducing damage to 0 is in play. An attack that does a base 0 damage may be modified upwards.

So the question would really be in the wording of Duende - All of your opponents successful attacks deals 0 damage, and their card text is ignored.
This does not say "reduced to 0", so I would have to say that with Kurgan ability, the 1 would get added. That may not be the intention of Duende, but I don't see any wording that would avoid the +1 damage. Even if you ignore the card text of the attack, the damage isn't usually part of that anyway.

My 2 cents

[dbaker]

The rulebook also states that Duende nulifies the text of the attack played against you, not any cards that modify the attack. My question is would Duende stop an upper atack played with a Headshot(event card), or dose a defense still have to be played to prevent the headshot from being sucessful?

[Thorr]

Good point Dallis. I would think that given the stuff seen here that you would still have to defend the Head shot.

[Thorr]

Somthing just occurred to me that probably clears this whole thing up. The attacks are placed Under the Duende card which means that they are no longer in play. Attacks that are no longer in play do not need to be defended.

[jamesmcmurray]

Damage: I'd say the intent of the addendum is pretty clear, despite the unfortunate use of quotes allowing for wiggle room. Were it to come up in a tournament I'm running I'd rule that Kurgan's attacks do no damage also.

Head Shot: Attacks aren't placed under Duende until they're successful. If a headshot is successful you instantly lose the game. Therefor you'd still have to defend a headshot, unless it was a headshot because of text on the attack such as a Kurgan Master Headshot.

[dbaker]

Okay, Duende states "You cannot play dodges. All of your opponents successful attacks deal 0 damage, and their card text is ignored. Place your opponents successful attacks under this card. If this card leaves play, lose 2 Ability for each attack under this card".

The rule book states Duende dose not nulify any cards that modify the attacks. Headshot states that if the attack succeeds it takes your opponents head.

So.. if you place the attack(played with the Headshot card) under Duende you are saying it is successful and by the wording on the headshot card you take your opponents head.

[Thorr]

James is right. Apparently I am having a very bad day.

The attack has to be successful before Duende gets a hold of it. A successful headshot will kill you, so Duende won't matter.

and yes, since the attack has to be successful before Duende gets hold of it, then Duende is reducing the damage to 0, which means that the Kurgan ability will not matter.

I am so going to get a bucket of coffee..

[dbaker]

I'm not one much for coffee, but Mountian Dew.... I drink it by the bucketful.

[prowler7]

thorr said:

and yes, since the attack has to be successful before Duende gets hold of it, then Duende is reducing the damage to 0, which means that the Kurgan ability will not matter.

From the Handbook-
Duende - If you have two Duendes in play, and your opponent makes a successful Attack, you choose which Duende the Attack goes under. Duende nullifies the Text of the Attack played against you, not any cards that modify the attack.

Since Duende doesnt nullify cards that modify the attack, then Kurgans ability SHOULD come into play, since the cards now do 0 damage (instead of no damage).

[Thorr]

Sorry, but the entry for Reducing Damage to 0 covers this scenario exactly. It's not a matter of nullifying the text. It's a matter that the damage is reduced to 0 -after- the attack is successful.

So Power Blow Thrust with Kurgan Q mean 6 points of damage on the successful attack. However, once the attack becomes successful, that damage is all reduced to 0 and the attack itself goes under Duende.

[headswillroll]

However, is it a matter of timing, since Kurgan's ability takes effect at the same time frame as duende, could you say that the duende takes affect first then the +1? The reason i am asking is because you have a lot of people that enjoy the game by attacking and not by stalling or cheeseing, and to get new players you might want to let them hack at each other without forcing them to play their decks certain ways, as is the problem with 2ed. Once again, it looks like it might be an "Official" call that we will never recieve.


Headwillroll