Question on your announcement

[headswillroll]

Greg and/or Brent,

Since you have stated that this will affect the championship, my question is, shouldn't it be one of each specific armor instead of one armor period? I ask because of Khan and his three pieces of armor and his Forged Armor since they are all considered "Armor" cards.

Also, what about all of these rules changes and clarifications you have added to the Type One format? Are we to use these as well in the championship? Who will be running the Type One tourneys, and are they using the rules updates you have implimented over the last six months or are they going to ignore everything we have worked on?

[headswillroll]

Oh, hey Brent , don't forget to check your personal messages.

[Thorr]

I would argue that since greg said 'Subtype armor' and 'subtype helmet' that Khan would not be all that affected. The subtypes for Khan's armor are 'Breastplate', 'greaves', and 'helmet' respectively. Only the title of each card is Armor.

Greg's example was Kurgan Bone Armor which is Type: Object, subtype: armor (a detail i need to fix on the spoiler..)

EDIT - My quotes are not direct quotes. Sorry for that. However, I believe that the heart of my point is important.

A hilt is and card with Type: Object and Subtype: Hilt. I fully believe that when greg references 'one armor' or 'one hilt' or 'one helmet' that he is referring to cards with a Type: Object and a Subtype: Hilt, Armor, Helmet, etc.

Hopefully greg will show up and confirm what I am saying

[headswillroll]

I agree with your assessment of the intent of his post, but since it may be an issue I may have to deal with at the championships, I need it from their mouths so it accepted by all, and there won't be any misunderstandings. Thank you though for your thoughts, as it confirmed mine.

[headswillroll]

It would be great to get an answer before the championships. Oh, also, Brent you have more PMs.

[greg]

Khan's armors are all different subtypes, so he is unaffected.

[greg]

You cant wear a Skull Helmet and a Crusade Helmet. You cant use Bone Armor and Crusade Gauntlets. You cant use Cavalier Hat and Crusade Helmet. Etc.

[headswillroll]

Thank you, that is the clarification I was waiting on, since the original post didn't specify subtitles, just generalities. Now, the way I am looking at the armors it breaks down like this if I am right.

Helmets (top)
Skull Helmet (Kurgan)
Armor/Helmet (Khan)
Crusade Helmet (Generic)
Cavalier Hat (Hugh 2ed only)

Breastplate/Gauntlets (middle)
Armor/Breastplate (Khan)
Bone Armor (Kurgan)
Crusade Armor (Generic)

Greaves/Boots (lower)
Armor/Greaves (Khan)

Miscellaneous (anything else)
Forged Armor (Khan)


My question is why is Bone Armor in the Breastplate catagory instead of the Miscellaneous catagory? Also, if Hugh's Cavalier Hat is considered a type of helmet, then why aren't the Space Goggles? Hopefully, this will be cleared up in the Rulebook.

[Thorr]

Wouldn't it be easier to group your stuff by Subtype since that is what the rule is all about?

This one here -
Breastplate/Gauntlets (middle)
Armor/Breastplate (Khan)
Bone Armor (Kurgan)
Crusade Armor (Generic)

...is not really correct in that case.

Object: Breastplate is not the same as Object:armor. A rule cannot be applied to something temporal. It has to be something on the card. The rule can only cover identical subtypes.

So, I say let's make a better list.

Object: Helmet
Skull Helmet (Kurgan)
Armor/Helmet (Khan)
Crusade Helmet (Generic)
Cavalier Hat (Hugh 2ed only) <--- This will need an errata since it is not a subtype of Helmet. (I don't give rat's patooty who you are, you can't make a rule based on temporal ideology. It has to be enforecable by the contents of the card. Errata is the simple solution)

Object: Armor
Crusade Gauntlets
Kurgan Bone Armor

Object: Breastplate
Khan breastplate

Object: Greaves
Khan Greaves

Forged Armor doesn't even belong on the list since it has no subtype. It is a support object for Other Armor cards. Space goggle has no subtype, so it is not part of this either (but HWR is correct about Cavalier Hat.. I already mentioned this should be errata'd)

[scottr]

greg said:

You cant wear a Skull Helmet and a Crusade Helmet. You cant use Bone Armor and Crusade Gauntlets. You cant use Cavalier Hat and Crusade Helmet. Etc.

I just wanted to clarify - all of your posts so far have been specific to helmet, armor and hilts. By your 'Etc', do you mean:

1. you may only have 1 armor, helmet, or hilt in play, regardless of the pair (of said object subtype, except Offhand Hilt) being discussed.

AND

2. This is the case for all subtyped (wearable?) objects (Breastplate and Greaves, for example, are affected, as HWR and Thorr have discussed)?

#1 has been clear, and #2 makes sense to me, but I figured I'd ask to be sure.

[scottr]

greg said:

There are subtypes of armor. Helm. Armor. Greaves. You may only have one helm in play. You could only have one subtype armor in play. Khan can have one of each of his in play, they are different subtypes. But Kurgan could not darius Khans helm in play, and also have a skull helmet. Kurgan could not wear Skull Helmet and Crusade Helm in 2E.

Posting to quote from the original thread - since Greaves is on the list, it does seem like #2 is intended, and perhaps the lack of text examples using Greaves or Breastplate is simply because there aren't multiple of those subtypes - but I'd still like to be 100% clear.

[greg]

Basically look at is as "upper, middle, lower" as the three types of armor. Bone armor falls into a middle, and is just called armor. Crusade Gauntlets falls into middle and is just called armor. Ones that are upper, get classified as armor: helm. Such as Crusade Helmet, Cavalier Hat, Facemask. There are not type 2 lower armor pieces yet, but Khan's greaves would be an example of that.

[scottr]

So, for T1, would breastplate be errata'd to be considered an armor, as a 'middle', for the purpose of this new rule?

Thanks for replying, btw.

[Thorr]

This gets sillier by the minute

[prowler7]

thorr said:

This gets sillier by the minute

I have to agree...
I really applaud the design team for trying to straighten out Type One like this, but its a big job and I still contend that they need help but wont ask for it.