"Regardless of effect" - (RAVEN014) SINGLE HANDED BROADSWORD

[ultra]

This is a fine point, but does clarify the "effect" versus "target" (and/or if there is any difference)

Card text:

UPSIDE: If your opponent used a Retrieve effect last turn, you may Remove the top card of your opponents Discard Pile from the Game, regardless of effect.

DOWNSIDE: You take three damage when blocking a Power Blow and one damage when making a Power Block.

So... is the play/activation/use of the REMOVAL effect "regardless of effect"

or

is the Target "regardless" of effect"

Easy scenario:

Player A is playing some persona and has their +1 Ability/Master Cannot Be Countered (+1 MCBC) and their Master's Attack just got swept into discard.

Player A further chooses to play Retrieval effect among cards but all-in-all, the Master's Attack sits at the top of his discard.

Comes around to Player B's turn who is using the SHBS.

Can Player B remove the Master's Attack?

Difficult scenario:

Player A is playing some persona and has their +1 Ability/Master Cannot Be Countered (+1 MCBC) and their Master's Attack just got swept into discard.

Player A futher plays a Retrieval effect and is playing as Terence Kincaid or using Terence Kincaid Quickening.

Terence Kincaid Persona (TVG032)
Text: If you do not play a Special Card, your opponent cannot use any Retrieval or Removal effects during their next turn.

Player A does not play a special but does execute a Retrieval effect (like using a pregame The Gathering to fetch a location)

Comes around to Player B's turn who is using the SHBS.
Can Player B remove the Master's Attack?

This definition of "regardless of effect" is probably not completely clear at the time.

There are few cards with this wording and this dynamic is probably not broached upon enough, yet.

Here is a gross example and why this should be further clarified ... you could read "regardless of effect" as you can even do this

if you are disarmed with the SHBS flipped over - hey, it says "Regardless of effect".

Would imagine this would not be the case, and hope most players would not, but it's possible.

Im leaning more toward the "regardless of effect" as being able to "pick the target" instead of the use/activation of the effect.

If this is so, then maybe needs a re-wording.

But if not, then it is possible the "regardless of effect" is for the use of the effect and not the target?

This actually would be good too, as the +1 MCBC cards would still have an actual use (Removal effects are not so plentiful)

or

Both? (Which means Terence Kincaid power cannot stop this effect and the +1 MCBC does not stop the Master's Attack from being targeted

- truly "regardless")

Do you really want to create a gaming environment where people spend half the rounds worrying about how to set up their discard piles?

ok, i digress.

At first, i would think that the "regardless of effect" applied to the Target only.
but after looking at the wording and trying to be more literal about it - maybe not.

Thanks for your time (whomever is reading this).

[ultra]

and if any admin can move this to the RULES section instead of here, please do so.
i thought i had posted there .

[dragothebreaker]

Good question. The regardless of defect would seem to be designed to specifically get around the master’s can’t be removed. However don’t want to speak for designer

[dragothebreaker]

I would even go so far as to say the design seems to have specifically been to kill 2h Broad Sword that retrieval of masters head shot.

I should have added that

[ultra]

yes, totally agree that it was probably to help balance the 2HBS. First time i met Steve, he said so directly when he was handing out prizes. As you may see in the example, and especially with The Kurgan (Master's HS also is "If You Do Not Play A Special"), he should (or not) be able to get a combo with Terrence Kincaid to help stop the Removal effect from the SHBS. But this is conjecture.

[dragothebreaker]

I feel it was designed that way. But I am not rules team nor do I wish to speak for design of the card

This would not be the first card designed to counter another card by a mile. I would rule in tourney that it DOES work. However, not out of bounds to say I could be wrong.

Great post

[ultra]

wait.. which one would work? the SHBS would not be effected by the Terence Kincaid power or will be effected and stopped by the Terence Kincaid power.