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Post by Tim Small on Jun 9, 2008 17:09:21 GMT -5
"Must Do's must go first, unless you have a May Do that will affect it."
Updated 06/09/2008
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Post by scottr on Jun 9, 2008 19:07:57 GMT -5
There is a real problem with this, and I cant believe that nobody else has seen it yet. If you resolve MDMD in any order you wish, some effects would not allow the resolution of OTHER effects. Namely, you could choose to do a May Do that indirectly disallows the resolution of a MUST DO. Sure, but is this a change? If a May Do can 'affect a must do', then it was already legal to be played before a must do, right?
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Post by scottr on Jun 9, 2008 19:11:37 GMT -5
"Must Do's must go first, unless you have a May Do that will affect it." Updated 06/09/2008 So Greg's change is gone? (I don't have a horse in the race, but want to be clear). If the old rule was that you can only play may do's before must do's if the may do can affect the must do, then it stands to reason the only change would be allowing you to freely perform a may do that doesn't/can't affect any must dos. Perhaps it is just my perspective that the current rule was pretty open ("affecting" a must do), so I don't see this (Greg's proposed change?) as that much of a change.
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Post by prowler7 on Jun 9, 2008 19:25:19 GMT -5
"Must Do's must go first, unless you have a May Do that will affect it." Updated 06/09/2008 I sure hope this is the way you guys are going. I truly do. I have no problem with doing any Must Do's in the order you want, and doing any May Do's in the order you want, but they DO need to be seperate.
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Post by greg on Jun 9, 2008 20:56:43 GMT -5
Tim is incorrect. I believe he is getting confused with the wording of the old rulebook vs the way we had discussed and decided this would work going forward.
May Do and Must Do occur in the same phase. You must resolve all must Do effects during this phase, HOWEVER you may activate any may do effects at anytime during this phase.
I.E. Methos may strat 2 cards and draw 2 cards before fufilling the effects of an Open Mind Kane played against him.
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Post by prowler7 on Jun 9, 2008 21:12:56 GMT -5
Tim is incorrect. I believe he is getting confused with the wording of the old rulebook vs the way we had discussed and decided this would work going forward. May Do and Must Do occur in the same phase. You must resolve all must Do effects during this phase, HOWEVER you may activate any may do effects at anytime during this phase. I.E. Methos may strat 2 cards and draw 2 cards before fufilling the effects of an Open Mind Kane played against him. OK, PM sent to Greg regarding my stand on this.
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Post by headswillroll on Jun 9, 2008 22:13:29 GMT -5
Tim is incorrect. I believe he is getting confused with the wording of the old rulebook vs the way we had discussed and decided this would work going forward. May Do and Must Do occur in the same phase. You must resolve all must Do effects during this phase, HOWEVER you may activate any may do effects at anytime during this phase. I.E. Methos may strat 2 cards and draw 2 cards before fufilling the effects of an Open Mind Kane played against him. WHAT!!!!!! You have gotten to be kidding me. Dude, it is NOT April Fool's Day. You are changing a rule that made sense, and that everyone is familiar with into this abomination of a rule that basically destroys the reasoning in playing any card or card combo that forces your opponent to do something. Then what is the use of having an Immediate Effect rule if you are going to use this rule to nullify it? I am sorry, I have tried to explain why this shouldn't happen, but this is retarded to me. Could you explain the reasoning in changing this rule to start with, because I do not understand why you would want to change a valid logical rule into something that seriously hinders both formats and could send this game into a tailspin.
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Post by headswillroll on Jun 9, 2008 23:08:12 GMT -5
Tim is incorrect. I believe he is getting confused with the wording of the old rulebook vs the way we had discussed and decided this would work going forward. May Do and Must Do occur in the same phase. You must resolve all must Do effects during this phase, HOWEVER you may activate any may do effects at anytime during this phase. I.E. Methos may strat 2 cards and draw 2 cards before fufilling the effects of an Open Mind Kane played against him. Sorry but it is rule changes like this which can cause you to make comments about your supposedly top four immortals. Nothing like changing the rules to beef up only specific immortals. Great idea, it just killed the game the first time, maybe it'll do it again.
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Post by headswillroll on Jun 10, 2008 10:41:17 GMT -5
Alright, I vented a little yesterday, but don't take anything back as it was all viable commenting. The reason why is the neutering affect this will have on cards like Trenchcoat, Holy Ground, Hunter discard, Hunter Prone, and other cards of this nature. Lets face it, these cards were designed to hinder your opponent and gain you an advantage in the game by forcing your opponent to do something they don't want to. With allowing this rule to go through what is the point of playing these cards or even printing them. All this does is promote heavy defense/stall/healer decks. Proof of my statement is this ridiculous new Master's Dodge which destroys any attack deck with minimal side effect, guess what, they didn't plan on attacking anyway. Furthermore, every heavy defense/stall/healer deck is going to use this to trash any one who, heaven help us, thinks outside the box and plays an attack deck. The reason Tim, Prowler and I are arguing against this is what fun is it going to be to see who can stall the other player the best? In short it is not what this game is supposed to be about. Also, why is it that no one else is seeing it but us three old players, and why is it that you have multiple people trying to explain the big picture without giving away deck building skills arguing against one? You have created this discussion with the idea of using many peoples opinions to make a good respectable set of rules, but all I see so far is that other than the blantant text changes, everyone's opinions aren't being accounted for. If this is the way it is to be, then why even have this forum, just have someone edit the grammatical errors.
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Post by Tim Small on Jun 13, 2008 8:31:36 GMT -5
It is staying the way it was, Must Do's go first unless you have a card that May alter it's effects. I will post an example of this later tonight.
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Post by prowler7 on Jun 13, 2008 11:42:34 GMT -5
Thank you! I am glad that reason has won out in this. Believe me, those of you who dont quite understand what all the fuss was about, being able to mix May and Must Do's would have opened up a HUGE can of worms, especially in Type One.
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Post by scottr on Jun 13, 2008 12:19:12 GMT -5
It seems that the way I've seen this (current) rule handled has been incorrect (too lax, with only the lightest effect of a May Do on a Must Do being enough to perform the Must Do first)...
The way the Type 2 rulebook currently spells it out ("unless you have a May Do that will allow you to not do a Must Do") seems much more clear, and hopefully we'll get some concrete examples from Tim to make sure we understand the intention of "May alter it's effects" vs. "not do".
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Post by jdtimi on Jun 13, 2008 13:15:59 GMT -5
It is staying the way it was, Must Do's go first unless you have a card that May alter it's effects. I will post an example of this later tonight. First example that comes to mind is to Recon a Location like Battlefield.
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Donald
Ancient Immortal
Posts: 359
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Post by Donald on Jun 13, 2008 15:13:06 GMT -5
Weren't you always able to play a Special Card before the Must Do?
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Post by scottr on Jun 13, 2008 16:13:05 GMT -5
You can't play specials during MDMD, only edges.
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